Rose Pugh

Rose Pugh lives at Carroll Lutheran Village. Rose was born in 1922 in PA. . Rose Pugh lives at Carroll Lutheran Village. Rose was born in 1922 in PA.

Transcription

Rose Pugh

CAROL EMSLEY: This is Carol Emsley. I am– it is February the 11th at 1:40 in the afternoon. And I’m here at Carroll Lutheran Village to talk to Rose Pugh. Rose, can you tell me when and where you were born?

ROSE PUGH: Yes I can. I was born in March, on March the 5th, 1922 in Mount Carmel, Pennsylvania.

CAROL EMSLEY: And tell me about your family.

ROSE PUGH: My– my mother and father, uh, this is an interesting story about the night I was born. Want to hear it?

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely.

ROSE PUGH: For the whole night the first night I was born, my parents though I was a boy.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, dear.

ROSE PUGH: Did I tell you this before?

CAROL EMSLEY: I don’t know. It doesn’t matter, because it isn’t in the archives.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah. Anyway, I think it’s funny that they thought I was a boy all night until the morning when they changed my diaper. And then they knew I was a girl. But my mother had a midwife to help deliver me. And the midwife was a foreign language, which was not the same as theirs.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And so, what she said was I was the gruff boy, which in her language meant a split boy, which was a girl. And they thought I– I was a boy. That’s all my father wanted to hear, boy, because they already had two daughters. So anyway, they– all night long I was a boy. Of course they didn’t name me.

CAROL EMSLEY: When did they name you?

ROSE PUGH: That I don’t know.

CAROL EMSLEY: You had two older sisters then?

ROSE PUGH: I had two older sisters. One was Mary, and the other one was Ann. Mary was the older of the two. And, uh, the– the next youngest was, uh, eight years my junior. And my sister Mary was 12 years my ju– my– my senior, not my junior. Anyway, uh, I was the first child born to my parents in the United States. They came from Hungary, uh, right after the World War I was over.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: My father came before that, but my mother wouldn’t come because of the war, until the war was over. So, uh, it was a long period between times they saw each other.

CAROL EMSLEY: Why did– why did he leave Hungary? Why did he leave Hungary.

ROSE PUGH: Well, that’s another interesting story, at least, I think it is. And at that period of time, it was part of the Austria-Hungarian empire. And, uh, people– the men had to serve time in the military, in the army. I forget how many years it was, but it was maybe eight years. It was a long time.

They had to serve that time. And, uh, they could serve it in intervals. Like, they could serve for four years and then knock off for four years, and go back and server the next four, or whatever it was.

CAROL EMSLEY: But they had quite a– quite a big commitment of time then.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, it was. And my father didn’t want to stay for that. He had already, I don’t know if he already served some time or not. But he didn’t want any parts of it anyway, so he left. He left the country. And that’s a big story.

He told that story to us more than once. And he had to leave without anything except what he had on his back, because he didn’t want to be under suspicion so they’d pick him up and arrest him.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: So, uh, he sneaked out of Hungary. He went to France and– and took the, uh, a ship from Le Havre. I think it was France. And I don’t know, the rest of the story is– is lost to me about his getting here, because, uh, we never heard it from him or anybody else. Somebody knows, but I don’t know who that would be. And it would be interesting to find out, just, you know, how he got here.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. And then, your mother was left in Hungary with two little girls, right?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Where did she live?

ROSE PUGH: She stayed with his mother.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: His mother was still living, and she was not well, and my mother helped take care of her. And then, I don’t know anything of the story after that. I wish I had asked for more questions than I did. I didn’t really ask her too much. We just listened whenever she talked.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: Or when my father talked, we just listened.

CAROL EMSLEY: And they spoke Hungarian then.

ROSE PUGH: Oh yes, they didn’t speak English.

CAROL EMSLEY: And you spoke Hungarian?

ROSE PUGH: I [INAUDIBLE] oh, my– my parents didn’t speak anything. Maybe a few words in English. My father was here a couple years before my mother came. So he probably had some English.

CAROL EMSLEY: And at what point did you learn English?

ROSE PUGH: I learned English when I’ve learned Hungarian, because I was an infant right after they came here.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And so, uh, it meant that I had to learn two languages in order to communicate–

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: –with everybody. With my parents, for one thing, if I’d have just spoke Hungarian, I’d have been fine with them. But then I had to get along with other people in the community too.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: So I spoke two languages at once. And–

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s very good, you know, for young– for young people to learn a language, uh, as though it’s– it’s the most natural thing in the world. The same as they learn English, they’re learning another language. I think that’s excellent.

ROSE PUGH: Right. They say– I read this somewhere recently, that the language you learn between the ages of, uh, one and six it’s the language you never forget. And it’s true.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, and you haven’t forgotten your Hungarian.

ROSE PUGH: I never forgot it.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s wonderful, isn’t it?

ROSE PUGH: And then I did learn more, because we had Hungarian refugees in Harrisburg, where we lived at the time. They came here from, um, Germany.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: Uh, they got out of Hungary during the revolution.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And they went to Germany, and from Germany they came here. And anyway, they lived in the same apartment building that we did, so we became friends. And what I didn’t already know, I learned from them. And what they didn’t know in English, which was just about everything, I helped them learn. And it was a mutual–

CAROL EMSLEY: So then, you were born here, and then you had more siblings born in this country? Or were there only three of you?

ROSE PUGH: No. I had a brother. I had two brothers and a sister born after me.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, so you were a family of six children?

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: What did your father do?

ROSE PUGH: My father was a coal miner.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: You know the story, I was a coal miner’s daughter? I really was.

CAROL EMSLEY: You could’ve sung that with Loretta Lynn, huh.

ROSE PUGH: That’s– that’s why they came here, because there was work here, and work happened to be in the coal mine. That’s why lot people that you might speak to here, older people, will tell you– that they lived in the coal region because that was where there was work.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: And while it was terrible work, it was work.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely, and there was food on the table because they could go down and mine that coal.

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah. So at what point then did you become associated with Carroll County?

ROSE PUGH: Well, that’s another long story, but, uh, I’ll try and make it short as I can. The last place we lived before we came to Carroll County was Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My husband had a job there.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, by this time you’re married.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, right.

ROSE PUGH: By the time– my family had moved to Buffalo, New York.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And I stayed behind in Pennsylvania, and my husband– and I married right before they all left. And my husband got work in Harrisburg, and that’s why we went to Harrisburg.

CAROL EMSLEY: How old were you when you married him. How old were you when you married him?

ROSE PUGH: Eighteen.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, you were a child.

ROSE PUGH: I was a child. Right. I was a coal miners child. Anyway, and we came from– uh, to Carroll County from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, because my husband changed jobs. And, uh, he was given a choice of where he could live. It was, had– had to be in the, uh, the Baltimore, Washington area because he was a tire salesman.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: So that’s how we ended up and Carroll County. We ended up in Wes– Westminster just by chance. And we found a house to live in, which was another thing just by chance. Because that– this was in the ’60s that we came to Carroll County. And in the ’60s there weren’t that many places to rent.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And we weren’t ready to buy. We didn’t know how long we’d be here, for one thing, so, uh, we were looking for are place to rent, and by luck we found one. And it happened to be on Ridge Road, which was a lovely section of town. You know Westminster well enough to know that?

CAROL EMSLEY: I don’t know where Ridge Road is.

ROSE PUGH: Hmm?

CAROL EMSLEY: I don’t know where Ridge Road is.

ROSE PUGH: You don’t? A lot of people don’t know where Ridge Road is.

CAROL EMSLEY: I often see that address, but I have no idea where it is.

ROSE PUGH: You know where the college is?

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Well, when you’re going, uh, you’re going west on Main Street–

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: –when you get to college, it’s– it’s on your right. And, uh, to get to Ridge Road, you make a right– a left hand turn onto new Windsor Road. And, uh, from New Windsor Road you, uh, turn off to Ridge Road.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK. Anyway, so that’s where you found your first home here?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. And did you have your– your children here then in Westminster?

ROSE PUGH: I had one child in Pennsylvania. My first daughter was born in the coal region. And my second daughter was born in Harrisburg– 18 years apart.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh my goodness.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Same husband?

ROSE PUGH: Hmm?

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh, because I know you’ve had two husbands.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, but this was to the same husband.

CAROL EMSLEY: What happened with all the intervening years?

ROSE PUGH: Not much. I was working. And I loved my job. I hated, uh, leaving. Well, I had to leave the area because of my husband’s job relocation. So, uh, uh–

CAROL EMSLEY: What were you doing? What was your job that you loved?

ROSE PUGH: I worked for Nationwide Insurance Company.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: In the accounting department. I was there for nine years.

CAROL EMSLEY: And could you not transfer to another Nationwide office.

ROSE PUGH: I wasn’t ready to go to work right away.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: I– I– I was new in the area, and I didn’t know. There wasn’t that much work in Westminster at the time.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And I wasn’t looking for a job, but I almost took a job a Dutter’s Florist Shop.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh yes, uh-huh, they’re still there. Were they on, um, whatever street they’re on? Were they in that same place?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, Pennsylvania Avenue.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s right, yes. Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: So, um, uh, you just had the two girls then?

ROSE PUGH: That’s all, two daughters.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s all, right. And tell me, when you were, when you were living in Pennsylvania, you obviously went– did all your schooling there?

ROSE PUGH: I beg your pardon?

CAROL EMSLEY: You did all your schooling there in Pennsylvania?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Grade school?

ROSE PUGH: I had high school there.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, and primary school.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Elementary school. What age did you start to elementary? Did you have a kindergarten?

ROSE PUGH: About six years, I guess. I went to a country school. I went to a one-room country school. We lived in the country at the time.

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh-huh.

ROSE PUGH: And, uh, we used– I used to walk to school. I mean we really lived in the boondocks when we lived in the country in Pennsylvania. We lived Catawissa County, which is, uh, pretty isolated to this day.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: So the only thing that was anywhere near us was a poor farm. You know what a poor farm is?

CAROL EMSLEY: No. Is it like a poor house?

ROSE PUGH: Well, the place is now the farm museum, at one time was what we called the poor farm.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, same as a poorhouse.

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: Where people go when they don’t have enough money.

ROSE PUGH: Right, where people who, homeless people went when they–

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: –had no place else to go.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: And there was one of those near us, but other than that–

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, were did the other coal miners live?

ROSE PUGH: Well, my father used to have to drive to the coal mine.

CAROL EMSLEY: Ah, he had a car.

ROSE PUGH: He had a car, which was very unreliable. I don’t how he ever got to and from.

CAROL EMSLEY: What kind of car was it, do you remember?

ROSE PUGH: No. It was a– a small thing. All I remember about that car is when we moved from the country into the city, and we had a cat we wanted to take along. And my father said, well, the only way we can take this cat where it will stay put is to put it in a bag, and so it can’t see where we’re Going

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. And did it work?

ROSE PUGH: It did. At least, as far as I know it did. Because I was not that– I was what, how old then? Maybe six, maybe even seven. Anyway, had a very spectacular life you would say. We moved a good bit when I was young.

CAROL EMSLEY: And when you went to this one room schoolhouse, how many years did you go to that school?

ROSE PUGH: Maybe two.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, and what was your teacher’s name, do you remember?

ROSE PUGH: No that I don’t remember.

CAROL EMSLEY: Don’t remember. And when you moved from there, then were you in a school with more classes?

ROSE PUGH: Well, when I moved from the farm to the city, it was, uh, in a little town called Atlas. And, uh, we had a school there that I think, I can’t remember how many grades were in that school. It was an elementary school. And that’s where I really learned to read, in that school. I found learning to read very easy, because I loved words, and I loved stories.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: So that part of learning was very easy for me. When it comes to math, shhh.

CAROL EMSLEY: I was going to say, how was the number work?

ROSE PUGH: That was not too good, but I was good with language. But I had a good start in language.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. Well, obviously. You spoke two languages, quite fluently I assume.

ROSE PUGH: Really.

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you ever learn to read and write Hungarian?

ROSE PUGH: No, I never did learn to read and write. They did have– my parents belonged to a club that was a Hungarian club.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. And, uh, they did have a teacher come from somewhere, I don’t even know where, and taught some Hungarian history, and– and reading, and writing, and some stories. But I never went because I already knew what I needed to know.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: Except for the history and stuff like that, which they didn’t get that much of. And my brother didn’t want to go, so he would sneak out and get out the, uh, side window of the school.

CAROL EMSLEY: So he didn’t have to stay for lessons.

ROSE PUGH: No, he never did. My sister did, my one sister did. She stayed. And she still has the reader that they gave her–

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: –to learn from.

CAROL EMSLEY: But now, when you look at the words, can you recognize the words or not?

ROSE PUGH: I can because it’s all Arabic characters. Uh, it’s the same, same as English.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: When we’re done here, I’ll show you a calendar I have, and it’ll give you an idea.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, OK. So anyway, you married this man. What was his name?

ROSE PUGH: The man I married?

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: My first husband was John Marquette.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, and you married him when you were 18, and you moved to Harrisville– Harris– Harrisburg?

ROSE PUGH: No, we were living in the coal region at the time I married him.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, but then you said he got a job He was a tire salesman?

ROSE PUGH: Right, and that’s when we moved to Harrisburg.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, and from Harrisburg, you moved here to Carroll County.

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. And when you moved to Carroll County, um, how long did you live here?

ROSE PUGH: Well, I lived here until I got married the second time.

CAROL EMSLEY: So how many years? Uh, let me see, from 1960 to 1979.

CAROL EMSLEY: So 19 years, a long time.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah. And then I did in Indiana for 10 years until I–

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s your clock.

ROSE PUGH: Excuse me that’s my clock– until my husband died, and I came back to Carroll County.

CAROL EMSLEY: So, your first husband, he passed away?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Now, what did he die of?

ROSE PUGH: He died of, uh, lung disease.

CAROL EMSLEY: Had he ever been a miner. Your first husband, had he ever been a miner.

ROSE PUGH: I didn’t hear that last word.

CAROL EMSLEY: Had he ever worked in the mines.

ROSE PUGH: No, he worked outside.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, I wonder why he got lung disease. Was he a smoker? Did he smoke?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh.

ROSE PUGH: He smoked cigarettes and cigars.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And he– he was an outdoors kid. He was a Boy Scout.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And he spent a lot of time out in the open.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: So that should have made him healthier.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, you’d think so, yes. How old was he when he died?

ROSE PUGH: He was 65.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, so he was quite young yet.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well it depends on what he–

ROSE PUGH: By today’s standards, he was young.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s right, yes. Yeah. So. So then, were your– were your girls grown by then, or not.

ROSE PUGH: Well, my one daughter was still in college. The other one was married and had children of her own. But, uh, yeah, the second daughter was still in college. She went to Frostburg and graduated from Frostburg.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. And, uh, so how long were you widowed before you remarried? About five years.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, and when– did you go to Indiana with your second husband then?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Ah, OK.

ROSE PUGH: I met him on a trip to Florida. My sister was staying in Florida, and she invited me to come down and stay with them for a while. And I did, and that’s when I met my second husband and decided then, well, we talked about getting married. And I said well, why not, I was then, what, 72? Something like 72 years old, and he was five years older.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, OK.

ROSE PUGH: And I said, well, you know, if we have 10 years, that’s good.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely. And did you–

ROSE PUGH: And that’s–

CAROL EMSLEY: –10 years?

ROSE PUGH: –about exactly what we did have.

CAROL EMSLEY: And what did he pass on from?

ROSE PUGH: What did he did from?

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: I was going to say old age, but it wasn’t really old age. It was, uh, he had heart disease.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: That’s what he died from, heart disease.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. OK, I don’t think they can put old age on a death certificate.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: I think they have to be more specific. So then you get back to Carroll County when you were widowed the second time, is that right?

ROSE PUGH: That’s right?

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: I came back to Carroll, well, my husband died right before the– the start of this century.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: He died, uh, between Christmas and New Years of ’99.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK right.

ROSE PUGH: So, uh, I stayed there until after the funeral and everything was over. I stayed there until March. In March, my brother and sister and I came– drove down to Florida. We had a place down there. We went down there and stayed there for a couple weeks. And I sold that place, and I knew I wouldn’t go back again, because it was– my sister was gone then.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And there weren’t too many people left that I knew. So.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: –and it was

CAROL EMSLEY: So you decided on Carroll County. And why? Why did you come back here?

ROSE PUGH: Because my daughter lives here.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And I liked Carroll County. I had a lot of friends here. And I wanted to come back, because it was home.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, right. You lived here almost 20 years.

ROSE PUGH: And it still is.

CAROL EMSLEY: When you– when you moved back, where did you live initially? When you first moved back here, where did you live?

ROSE PUGH: When I first moved back here, I stayed with my daughter while I looked for a place. I was looking for a place to buy, and then I thought well, maybe I don’t have to buy a place. Maybe it’s going to be more trouble getting rid of it than I want to get into.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: So by luck, I found a place to live on– at Parr’s Ridge. I save by luck, because I was looking at a place to buy, and the realtor had this other place that she was handling. And it had an empty apartment. So I looked at it, and I liked it, and I took it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Ah, so you went into an apartment.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Well, a condominium.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. Uh-huh. But then you didn’t have to worry about lawn care, and if the roof leaked, and that sort of thing, is that right?

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, because if you have a house, then you’ve got all the worries of home maintenance.

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: And for a woman alone, that’s a big responsibility.

ROSE PUGH: That’s true. So anyway, uh, I loved the condo. I’d still be living there if I hadn’t gotten a very serious illness. I had a, uh, colonoscopy.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And I couldn’t stay here because I lived on the second floor, which–

CAROL EMSLEY: And no elevator.

ROSE PUGH: No elevator.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, right, yeah.

ROSE PUGH: It was a very inconvenient thing to be on the second floor, even when I was well. But there was no way they would allow me to go back there.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. Um–

ROSE PUGH: So I stayed with my daughter, who lives on Turkey Foot Road.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. I love that name, Turkey Foot Road.

ROSE PUGH: It’s a lovely road. It’s an old country road. At one time, it was part of the main route from, uh, from Westminster to, uh, Gettysburg.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: That’s all been changed since then, but at one time that was part of the road to Gettysburg.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: It’s a country road, and it’s– it’s, um, dirt.

CAROL EMSLEY: Even–

ROSE PUGH: And each–

CAROL EMSLEY: –still?

ROSE PUGH: –side of the road has trees growing up on. It’s a beautiful road.

CAROL EMSLEY: And it’s still not paved.

ROSE PUGH: No. They’ve been talking about it for 35 or 40 years, but so far–

CAROL EMSLEY: Nothing happened yet, huh?

ROSE PUGH: –nothing had happened. But it is a charming road.

CAROL EMSLEY: But you have– you have two daughters, then how many grandchildren?

ROSE PUGH: I have, uh, I have to stop and think. My– my great grandchildren are the most numerous. I had– I have two grandchildren by the younger daughter.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And I had three by the older daughter. So I had five grandchildren altogether.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: And we lost one grandson in a– in a terrible tractor accident–

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh.

ROSE PUGH: –when he was only 15 and 1/2 years old. And it took us a long time to get over that, but we did. As much as you can ever get over something like that.

CAROL EMSLEY: Exacty, yeah, yeah.

ROSE PUGH: He would now be 30 years old.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. That was a grandson.

ROSE PUGH: That was a grandson, a lovely boy.

CAROL EMSLEY: And so now, how many great grandchildren are there?

ROSE PUGH: Well, the great grands, one of my granddaughters has eight children.

CAROL EMSLEY: Ooh!

ROSE PUGH: All of whom she home schooled. The oldest one now is, uh, in his third year in college in West Virginia.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh my goodness.

ROSE PUGH: No, not in West Virginia, in Virginia.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And the others are on– one girl is married. The oldest daughter is married, and she’s expecting a baby in maybe June. So I’ll have a great grandchild in June– a great, great grandchild.

CAROL EMSLEY: Great, great. A great, great grandchild. Oh my goodness.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, a great, great one.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh my goodness. Tell me, now, I’m sure your grand– your great grandchildren, I’m sure, probably spend a lot of time with computer games, and, uh, these little things they do with their fingers, you know. And when you were a child, how did you spend your time, when you weren’t in school.

ROSE PUGH: When I went to school?

CAROL EMSLEY: When you weren’t in school.

ROSE PUGH: When I wasn’t in school, we used to play outdoors a lot.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. What did you play?

ROSE PUGH: We played tag, we played hide and seek. What else did we play? I can’t really remember. We’re going back 89 years now.

CAROL EMSLEY: And, uh, well, you had two older sisters, but they were a lot older.

ROSE PUGH: Well, the old, the next oldest was eight years older.

CAROL EMSLEY: Exactly, yeah. So you really didn’t have anybody to play dollies with.

ROSE PUGH: What?

CAROL EMSLEY: You didn’t play dolls?

ROSE PUGH: No. I had one doll. And remember, these were depression days.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely.

ROSE PUGH: And I had one doll and one doll carriage. And the boys ruined the doll carriage. And I wasn’t that nuts about it. I was not the motherly type.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK Did you become the motherly type when you had your own.

ROSE PUGH: I had to.

CAROL EMSLEY: I know. But I think some women are more maternal than others, don’t you?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah I was very close to my first daughter. It was the two of us, and nobody else in the family. My– my– my extended family was gone, and so, I was just the two of us until we made new friends. She made friends, and I made friends. But she was young when we moved to Harrisburg. She was only about two, two or three years old.

So, uh, we– we were closer together. The second daughter was close too because I stayed home with her. I didn’t have a job anymore, didn’t have to get up and go to work. And I was able to be a mother. And that was a wonderful time. I really enjoyed that time. Because we did a lot of things together.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And when she was in school, I used to help the teacher, her teachers, a lot. And we went on trips together to Washington, and wherever they went on a day trip.

CAROL EMSLEY: School trips? School trips?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, OK. You’d go along as a chaperone, right?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Yes. I’ll never forget going to go into the top of the Washington Monument one time with the– I think my daughter was in first grade that year. And there was one little boy who would not ride the elevator up. Absolutely, he would not go up. So I volunteered to walk up with him.

CAROL EMSLEY: That was brave of you.

ROSE PUGH: It was, it was very brave of me. But then, coming down, he decided he’d use the elevator. I said, well why didn’t you do that on the way up.

CAROL EMSLEY: Because he’d figured out how many steps it was.

ROSE PUGH: No. Maybe that was it. I don’t know, but anyway, we walked up, we rode down.

CAROL EMSLEY: And you should have done it in reverse.

ROSE PUGH: It should. Oh well, I made it. And so did he. I don’t know what happened to him. I lost track of him because the school that my daughter went to at that time, she was in first– first grade. It was at the West End School, which became, what’s it now? That’s a– a senior something, a senior center of some kind.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: So her school now is gone. And they really– they landscaped it and did a lot to it. It’s beautiful. We went there on a– on a day trip from here, from the village, one year a couple years ago. And it was really good to see what they had done with that old school.

CAROL EMSLEY: Wonder where it is?

ROSE PUGH: It’s on, um–

CAROL EMSLEY: It’s here in Westminster?

ROSE PUGH: Oh yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: It’s– I’m trying to think of what street it’s– I don’t know what street it’s on anymore. It’s not too far from where we lived on Ridge Road.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK. Up in there.

ROSE PUGH: Because my daughter used to walk to school from there.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. And you walked to school when you were little?

ROSE PUGH: Oh yes, but it wasn’t couple blocks. It was a couple miles, maybe two miles.

CAROL EMSLEY: What did you do in the winter?

ROSE PUGH: We walked to school.

CAROL EMSLEY: You did? A lot of snow?

ROSE PUGH: I can’t remember that.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, OK. That’s cold.

ROSE PUGH: I don’t remember that either. And you’d think I would remember how cold it was.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely, you’d think so.

ROSE PUGH: But I don’t remember that.

CAROL EMSLEY: Hmm.

ROSE PUGH: As I said, it’s been a number of years ago.

CAROL EMSLEY: So what year were you born again?

ROSE PUGH: ’22.

CAROL EMSLEY: ’22, and the Depression started 29, right?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: And you were seven.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: So those first years of the Depression, you were walking back and forth to school.

ROSE PUGH: Mm-hmm. Everybody did.

CAROL EMSLEY: How did the Depression affect your family?

ROSE PUGH: We did without a lot.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, I can imagine. Did your father stay in work?

ROSE PUGH: Oh, he worked, yes. But a coal miner did not make much money.

CAROL EMSLEY: No, but, and–

ROSE PUGH: With the farm and everything, he was trying to make a go of the farm so we could live on that.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, he was farming as well?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, OK.

ROSE PUGH: But it didn’t work out because, uh, the farm wasn’t big enough to be a– to be a lucrative thing.

CAROL EMSLEY: No, but it would help with the groceries for the family.

ROSE PUGH: Well, it did. We did. We raised a lot. We had fruit and all kinds of fresh vegetables. My mother had a cow. We had plenty of milk, and she made cheese and things. And we lived well. We had plenty to eat.

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you get– did you have chickens?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, she had chickens.

CAROL EMSLEY: So you could eat chickens, and you could have eggs.

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: But she had a mean rooster. That rooster wouldn’t let my brother and I pass his place. He had a certain area where he and the hens stayed. And we couldn’t walk past there without him getting after us. I know he pecked me a lot of times. And I wasn’t about to let him rule my life, but he did.

CAROL EMSLEY: But you didn’t keep, uh, you know, uh, uh, a pig, for instance, for slaughtering, to have bacon and so forth? Did you keep any other animals to eat?

ROSE PUGH: We had a pig.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And I guess they butchered the pig, but I can’t remember that happening.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK

ROSE PUGH: I remember the pig, oh gosh, I’d forgotten about this for a long time. But the pig got hung up on the– they have a little out building where they kept the pig. And there was a nail stuck out of some part of the building, and then the– the pig got hung up on this nail.

CAROL EMSLEY: Ouch.

ROSE PUGH: And my mother couldn’t lift him off. So he had to hang there and squeal and squeal until he got tired of squealing. And then he shut up, and then, he was saved. He did get saved. My father came home and took him off.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, for goodness sakes.

ROSE PUGH: But I almost forgot that story. That was a really bad one.

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you have pets.

ROSE PUGH: We had one cat. Maybe we had two. We went back to the city with one cat, but we may have had two at one time. Uh, no dogs.

CAROL EMSLEY: No dogs, huh?

ROSE PUGH: No.

CAROL EMSLEY: No fishes, no birds, no lizards?

ROSE PUGH: What?

CAROL EMSLEY: I said, no fishes, no birds, no lizards–

ROSE PUGH: No.

CAROL EMSLEY: –no rabbits, no–

ROSE PUGH: No.

CAROL EMSLEY: No, just cats.

ROSE PUGH: No pets. We had the cow. Her name was Bossy.

CAROL EMSLEY: Who milked her.

ROSE PUGH: And I remember my mother saying– we had a little cornfield behind the house. And, uh, we had a– a neighbor that lived right across the– the way from us. You could see their house from our house. And they got all excited one time and told my mother. Your cow’s in the corn. And– and my mother said, I know the cow is in the corn. She’s eating the weeds in between the rows. And the cow never touched the corn.

CAROL EMSLEY: Really?

ROSE PUGH: Mm-hmm. She just ate the– the weeds between the rows.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, I guess that’s easier than hoeing it, isn’t it?

ROSE PUGH: It sure was.

CAROL EMSLEY: Just turn the cow out.

ROSE PUGH: So those neighbors were nice. They were Pennsylvania Dutch people, and they had sons but no daughters. And, uh, I’ll never forget the day my sister was born, my next younger sister, the only sister I had after that. And, uh, it was potato picking time.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And my sisters were home from New York at the time, and they were helping pick the potatoes. And my younger sister, my next sister to me in age, was all upset. She said to my mother, can’t you wait until tomorrow. When my daughter– my sister was being born. Can’t you wait until tomorrow?

CAROL EMSLEY: To have the baby.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, because she want to be in on the potato picking. Oh well, anyway, that was–

CAROL EMSLEY: And are all your siblings gone now? Are all your siblings gone now? Have they all passed on?

ROSE PUGH: No, except the one. My younger sister is still living.

CAROL EMSLEY: Where does she live?

ROSE PUGH: She lives in, uh, Hamburg, New York.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, OK.

ROSE PUGH: Near Buffalo.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, so you don’t get to see her.

ROSE PUGH: No I don’t see her much anymore. We used to go back to Florida. She and my brother and I used to drive to Florida. Well, my brother did the driving. And we would rent a place for a month, the month of February. We stayed there the whole month.

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh-huh.

ROSE PUGH: And that was really fun. It was nice to be together.

CAROL EMSLEY: You were early snowbirds weren’t you?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah. Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Maybe they didn’t call them snowbirds then, but now–

ROSE PUGH: Yes they did.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh they did?

ROSE PUGH: [INAUDIBLE] yeah, I think they always did.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, that term goes back a long ways then.

ROSE PUGH: Oh, it does. But anyway, we did go back and spend a whole month in Florida. But we went to a place different where I had a place to live. We used to go to Tarpon Springs, to the Tarpon Springs area, which is a mostly Greek settles– settlers there. And, uh, sponge fishing is the big industry there.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh I didn’t now they did sponge fishing in Florida.

ROSE PUGH: Oh yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh OK.

ROSE PUGH: This is on the Gulf, it’s in the–

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, uh-huh.

ROSE PUGH: –the northern part of the Gulf.

CAROL EMSLEY: Up on the Panhandle.

ROSE PUGH: Not that far up.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: But anyway, that’s where we chose to stay, and we loved it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And there was a park there that we used to love to go to, where we went to go swimming, and just hang around around the water.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. Were you a good swimmer?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: You were? Enjoyed swimming?

ROSE PUGH: I loved swimming.

CAROL EMSLEY: How old were you when you learned to swim?

ROSE PUGH: Uh, I don’t know. Maybe I was– I know I was in elementary school. That’s another story that’s got a– a twist to it. We used to live in this little town in Pennsylvania, in this coal region town. And there was a old, uh, I guess it was a reservoir outside the town.

And, uh, the kids used to go there to swim. And you shouldn’t have been doing it, because the water was way over our heads for one thing. And on the floor of that reservoir were all these broken glass things.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh.

ROSE PUGH: And, uh, I went up there one day with my brother and some of his friends, and they pushed me in the water. And you know what that meant. It meant either sink or swim.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: And I didn’t sink.

CAROL EMSLEY: You swam.

ROSE PUGH: I doggie paddled and got back. But I never forgave him for that. Because I didn’t dare land my feet on the floor of the place.

CAROL EMSLEY: No, well it was too deep anyway wasn’t it?

ROSE PUGH: It was too deep anyway.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: And even if it wouldn’t have been, I would have cut myself all up.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. Wonder why there were all that glass down there?

ROSE PUGH: Who knows?

CAROL EMSLEY: Maybe something they did there before they flooded it.

ROSE PUGH: I have no idea. It was just there.

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you ever ice skate up there?

ROSE PUGH: No.

CAROL EMSLEY: Never ice skating.

ROSE PUGH: We didn’t do any ice skating there. We did in the– in the next town when I lived there, uh. The next town was, oh, maybe five miles away, maybe not quite that far away. And when we left this town we went to after we came back from the farm, we went to this town, next town, about five miles away. And, uh, that– I lost my train of thought. I don’t know what I was going to say.

CAROL EMSLEY: I’d asked you about ice skating.

ROSE PUGH: That’s where we went ice skating.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: There was a place that was flooded. It wasn’t a lake or anything. It was just a flooded place that we used to go in the wintertime to ice skate. In the summer we used to go there and pick berries.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK. So that– that flooding, it didn’t down the berries out.

ROSE PUGH: Right.

CAROL EMSLEY: And do you remember the ice skates you had? Do you remember the ice skates you had? When I was a little girl, we had–

ROSE PUGH: Yes, they were– they were, um, they were figure skates. And I think they were given to me by my girlfriend who out grew them. They were figure skates, and they were white.

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh-huh.

ROSE PUGH: And they laced up. They were beautiful states, and they were good.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK. How about roller skating? Did you ever go roller skating?

ROSE PUGH: Roller skating was my thing. I loved roller skating. Ice skating, my ankles were not very good for that.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: But I could ice skate– uh, roller skate with no trouble. I was a good roller skater. Anything that had to do with dancing or moving, like that, I was good at.

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you, when I was a little girl, we had clamp on roller skates. Did you have those?

ROSE PUGH: Oh yeah, we had those.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, the ones that clamped onto your shoes.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

ROSE PUGH: But the ice skates were the real figure skates. And, uh, we used to roller skate on the streets with the clamp on roller skates.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, we had those. We all had those. There wasn’t much to do in a small town in Pennsylvania, or anywhere at that time. You had to use your imagination for a lot of things that you did. I remember, in the summertime when we’d have a rainstorm, and it didn’t even matter if it was a thunderstorm. We’d be out in the rain in our bathing suits, getting all wet and flopping around in the gutters. And that was–

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, I remember the same thing.

ROSE PUGH: You do?

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, going out and playing in the rain. I did that with my grandson once when he was, oh, maybe three. My sister– my daughter thought that was really a bizarre thing to do, but I thought it was fun.

ROSE PUGH: Why not?

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh he loved it, going out–

ROSE PUGH: I’m sure.

CAROL EMSLEY: –playing in the rain.

ROSE PUGH: Is he the only grandson you have.

CAROL EMSLEY: No, I have three– three grandsons and, I’m trying to count up here. Because I got a new granddaughter this week. I mean, I didn’t get a new one, but she resurfaced. She’s– she was lost to our family for 20-some years.

ROSE PUGH: Oh, my.

CAROL EMSLEY: And we just found her this week. So there are three grandsons, yeah, three grand daughters and three grandsons.

ROSE PUGH: Oh well, that’s nice.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah. So.

ROSE PUGH: That keeps you busy.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yes, uh-huh, except that only– only– only three– three of them live here.

ROSE PUGH: Oh.

CAROL EMSLEY: So one live in Germany, and two of them live down in Georgia.

ROSE PUGH: That’s pretty far away.

CAROL EMSLEY: That is. So do you get to see your grandkids?

ROSE PUGH: Not very much. My one grandson, well, the only grandson I have, lives in Pennsylvania, in Hanover. And I don’t see him very much. He’s married and he has a child of his own.

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you ever play an instrument yourself.

ROSE PUGH: No, I started piano. But I didn’t stick with it, because it required more discipline than I could give it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely yes. But you said you liked to dance.

ROSE PUGH: I would now. Now I’m sorry I didn’t stick with it. I had a nun that was teaching me. I was going to a parochial school at the time. And, uh, I had a nun for a teacher, but we didn’t have a piano. But our neighbors did, and they let me use the piano to practice on. But like I said, it was too much discipline, and I would rather be out doing something else.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. But you liked to dance?

ROSE PUGH: That I liked to do.

CAROL EMSLEY: You like dancing.

ROSE PUGH: I love dancing. Dancing was part of my life always. I couldn’t decide whether I would rather be out dancing or riding horseback. When I got older of course, when I was married and had choices that I could make.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: But, uh–

CAROL EMSLEY: What kind of dancing did you do?

ROSE PUGH: Ballroom type dancing.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK. You ever–

ROSE PUGH: Waltzing–

CAROL EMSLEY: do the Charleston?

ROSE PUGH: What?

CAROL EMSLEY: Did you ever do the Charleston?

ROSE PUGH: No, that was before my time. We did do it in high school.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: We learned how to do a lot of those old dances in high school. We learned the Charleston, and the Big Apple, and all those, the Lindy Hop, all those, uh, old time dances.

CAROL EMSLEY: I remember when I was in school, we learned to do the Schottische. Did you ever learn to do the Schottische?

ROSE PUGH: No.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh gosh, I loved dancing the Schottische. I didn’t like to dance, but I like to do the Schottische.

ROSE PUGH: How do you do that?

CAROL EMSLEY: It’s– it’s three people, and, I don know. It’s a country dance. And you swing your legs this way, and you swing your legs that way. And you hop this way, and you hop that way. It’s really, it’s quite fun.

ROSE PUGH: Oh.

CAROL EMSLEY: I always wanted to dance, and I never– never did. I was too shy. I was very shy as a girl.

ROSE PUGH: You were?

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh my goodness, yes. [INAUDIBLE].

ROSE PUGH: That’s hard to believe now.

CAROL EMSLEY: I know, I know.

ROSE PUGH: You’re far from shy now.

CAROL EMSLEY: I know that.

ROSE PUGH: You’ve come a long way.

CAROL EMSLEY: Indeed I have.

ROSE PUGH: Yes, dancing was always one of my great things. I loved roller skating, anything to music was just great with me. I loved classical music best of all. But I liked country music too. And, uh, I grew up on some country– Hungarian country music. Which is, we called them tear jerkers.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: They’re a lot like American tear jerkers.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: You know what they’re like.

CAROL EMSLEY: But they’re not like German um-pa-pa music?

ROSE PUGH: What is it?

CAROL EMSLEY: I said it’s not like German um-pa-pa music.

ROSE PUGH: No, not like that.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: A lot of the classical music like Brahms, and Liszt–

CAROL EMSLEY: Liszt yeah.

ROSE PUGH: –based their– their classical pieces on Hungarian folk songs.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: So my mother used to say they’re not playing it right. Because it was different than she knew it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. When did your parents pass away. When did your parents pass away?

ROSE PUGH: My mother died in ’84. My father died in, uh, ’57 or ’58.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, he was quite young when he died then.

ROSE PUGH: Yes. He died of congestive heart failure. But that’s what my mother died of too.

CAROL EMSLEY: Both of them, huh.

ROSE PUGH: So many people die of congestive heart failure that I wonder, just what is this, uh, congestive heart failure

CAROL EMSLEY: I think the area around your heart fills up with liquid. I think that’s–

ROSE PUGH: My husband–

CAROL EMSLEY: –what it is.

ROSE PUGH: –died of the same thing.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: So.

CAROL EMSLEY: But your heart’s all right?

ROSE PUGH: So far.

CAROL EMSLEY: Knock on wood.

ROSE PUGH: I go see Dr. Selsky here. He comes here, uh, I don’t know how often he comes here to the village. Uh, and his patients can see him here instead of going to his office in town. So I keep– they keep doing– track of my heart.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. When did you start to lose your sight?

ROSE PUGH: About ’95. I was in Indiana at the time. I have to make some inquiries about that. I saw an ad on television here the other night about, uh, macular degeneration, that there is treatment for it. And I heard somebody tell me, it was an old friend of mine had something on to her eyes. It sounds horrible. I have to really think about this. They put a– a shot of some kind in your eyeball.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: And I don’t know what it does. I have to find out more about it, because I’m very interested in getting improvement on my vision.

CAROL EMSLEY: But I wonder if it actually improves it, or if it simply stops it getting worse.

ROSE PUGH: Well either way is OK.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: Because I’ve noticed mine getting worse.

CAROL EMSLEY: How much vision you do you have right now?

ROSE PUGH: I don’t really know.

CAROL EMSLEY: Can you see me?

ROSE PUGH: I can see you, but not plainly.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, you can see a shape of me.

ROSE PUGH: I can see your shape, your face, and you head and you’re hair, and– and your body. But in detail, I don’t see much.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, right. And so you can’t read now, is that right.

ROSE PUGH: Oh I can’t. I haven’t been able to read for a long time. There’s my reading machine.

CAROL EMSLEY: I know you have a reading machine. And how is it working with that?

ROSE PUGH: It’s not as useful as it used to be.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh is it because your–

ROSE PUGH: Because my condition has worsened.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. OK.

ROSE PUGH: It’s OK. It’s the same as it’s always been, but my eyes are not.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, yeah, it’s not the machine. It’s you.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah. So.

CAROL EMSLEY: And does the doctor say that eventually you’ll be totally blind?

ROSE PUGH: No, they told me the opposite. They said I would never be totally blind.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: But I think they told a falsehood.

CAROL EMSLEY: Trying to make you feel better, huh?

ROSE PUGH: Maybe. But maybe they weren’t considering how much longer I’d live.

CAROL EMSLEY: I was going to say, it could be too that it’s slow enough that, you know, you’ll die of something else before your sight goes completely.

ROSE PUGH: Really?

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah. I know my dad had prostate cancer. And the doctor said, you know, he said, at your age, he said, you’re going to die of something else before you die of prostate cancer. And he did.

ROSE PUGH: Well.

CAROL EMSLEY: You know, because it was so slow growing.

ROSE PUGH: Oh.

CAROL EMSLEY: So.

ROSE PUGH: Well, that’s it. We’re living a lot longer than we ever did, and we’re getting more things. The things we already have a wrong with us are getting worse.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right

ROSE PUGH: And we’re wide open to new things too. So getting old isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be.

CAROL EMSLEY: Have you ever heard it be cracked up to be anything?

ROSE PUGH: Yeah. They used to say, you know, age is a matter of how you look at it and thinking. But there’s a lot more to age than that.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yes. But some people, don’t you think some people are old at 55, and other people at 85 are still young?

ROSE PUGH: That’s true.

CAROL EMSLEY: So it’s a lot about how you think about it, I think. And as long as you have your health.

ROSE PUGH: As long as you have your health, you have everything.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: And that’s it. When that starts to go, you’re going too.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely, because, you know, it doesn’t matter how much money you have. You can’t buy your health back.

ROSE PUGH: Nope, you can spend a lot of money on it, but you can’t buy it back.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely, yeah. I read someplace that Americans spend more money on their health in the last six months of their life than they did in all the rest of their life.

ROSE PUGH: I believe it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: I’m at the age where it’s not hard for me to believe. And you know, I keep thinking, well, if nothing else goes wrong I can stand this.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: About the time, and then I had that fall, and I thought oh, this is it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: This is really it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: But I’m getting over it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, good. Good.

ROSE PUGH: Slowly, very slowly.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, next time you get up to go to the bathroom, get up and go to the bathroom. Don’t fall asleep on the edge of the bed.

ROSE PUGH: Don’t think about it.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s right. Don’t think about it.

ROSE PUGH: I was thinking about it. That’s when I made my big mistake. But I didn’t want to get up in the first place. Anyway that’s past now, that’s–

CAROL EMSLEY: But, you know, if you don’t get up, you can’t go back to sleep because you have to go to the bathroom. So you might just as well get up and go.

ROSE PUGH: You might as well get it over with.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely. Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Well.

CAROL EMSLEY: Because I have to get up usually once every night. And I like there and think, no. I don’t. I don’t have to. I don’t have to. And I can’t go back to sleep. So I finally get up and go.

ROSE PUGH: You might as well get it over with.

CAROL EMSLEY: Absolutely.

ROSE PUGH: That’s what I figure, get it over with. But this day, I was so tired I didn’t want to get up. And I did, I should have just not gotten up when I did. I should’ve just waited there until it got absolutely unbearable. But anyway, I’ll never do that again. I hope not. And then, somebody made a suggestion, well, maybe you passed out.

I don’t think I passed out. I would’ve known. I think I would’ve known what the difference was between passing out and falling asleep.

CAROL EMSLEY: I have no idea. Certainly, when I go to bed at night, I pass out, but I go to sleep. Are you happy to be here at the village?

ROSE PUGH: Yes, I like it here.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s good.

ROSE PUGH: They’re very good to me, and I’m as happy here as I would be anywhere.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSE PUGH: They take good care of me, and they feed me, and

CAROL EMSLEY: Now, come now–

ROSE PUGH: –entertain me–

CAROL EMSLEY: –I’m sure you feed yourself.

ROSE PUGH: They entertain me, and– and they’re good to me. I like it here. I said I don’t know where I’d rather be.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: I wouldn’t even want to be with my daughter, as good as she was to me, because, uh, that’s a different– it’s a different time in your life. Your– your needs are different than they were when you were younger, when you were self sufficient. Your needs to change a lot.

CAROL EMSLEY: Is this your younger daughter or older daughter that’s here.

ROSE PUGH: My older daughter.

CAROL EMSLEY: Your older daughter.

ROSE PUGH: My younger daughter lives in Hagerstown.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, right.

ROSE PUGH: And she has a full time job, a responsible job, with the government, and two children who are teenagers. And she keeps her own house, so she’s got her hands full.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, exactly. Yeah, so.

ROSE PUGH: No, my friends are all here, and I have good friends that come to visit me and call me on the phone, and are good to me. So I wouldn’t want to leave here.

CAROL EMSLEY: How long did you go to first Presbyterian?

ROSE PUGH: Where?

CAROL EMSLEY: How long have you been a member at First Presbyterian?

ROSE PUGH: How long?

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh-huh.

ROSE PUGH: Since we came to Westminster and 19– maybe it was ’61. We didn’t join right away. The church was just being formed then. And we just missed being charter members by a little bit. So that was in about ’61.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, right. And do you know like Diane Dickey and Dawn Vitsel? Do you know them through church?

ROSE PUGH: Oh yeah, they’re friends of mine.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right but you know them through church?

ROSE PUGH: Yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yes, OK. Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: Now Dawn was a neighbor on Ridge Road. She’s still on Ridge Road.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, oh, that’s where she lives is it?

ROSE PUGH: And Diane and I, Diane Dickey and I got to know each other better when we served on the pastor nominating committee. The year that we called, um, Stephen Fleming.

CAROL EMSLEY: Steve, yeah. OK.

ROSE PUGH: So I’ve known– I’ve been a friend of hers since then. And I didn’t know her too much before that in the church, because everybody has a different activity in the church. They do a different kind of thing.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh absolutely, and some people don’t do anything. But that’s another story.

ROSE PUGH: And that’s another story. But most of the people I did– I did know were doers.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, uh-huh. Well, you must have known Emily well then.

ROSE PUGH: Yes I did know Emily quite well.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, she’s sorely missed at church.

ROSE PUGH: I’m sure.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: And I was just thinking about here, either today or yesterday, I forget when. For some reason, I thought about her, and I said it didn’t seem like she was dead. It seemed like she was still living.

CAROL EMSLEY: Wonder when did she die, do you remember?

ROSE PUGH: About a year ago.

CAROL EMSLEY: Is it that long?

ROSE PUGH: About a year ago. Yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: I can’t remember. I know I wasn’t at her funeral.

ROSE PUGH: I don’t remember what time of year it was.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, I was in Europe about this time last year. Maybe it was while I was away she died and the funeral was. Because I know I did not go to her funeral. I was– I saw here at hospice once. And then I knew she’d died, but I think it must have happened when I was away.

ROSE PUGH: It might have, but I can’t remember exactly when it happened.

CAROL EMSLEY: I don’t remember either. Huh.

ROSE PUGH: I can rack my brain, but I still won’t remember.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s– that’s what I’m doing too, and I just can get a handle on it. So.

ROSE PUGH: We had, um, a few of our church members died. Uh, Virginia Rosen. Did you know Virginia?

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh-uh. No.

ROSE PUGH: And her husband Carl had died not too long before she did. Virginia died while she was here at the Village. She had some kind of an infection, uh, MERSA.

CAROL EMSLEY: Could be, yeah.

ROSE PUGH: I think it was MERSA. She had that, and they couldn’t cure it. They gave her all kinds of treatments for it, and it didn’t work. She died of it And– and Bob Baker.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, Bob, I knew Bob and Gertrude, of course.

ROSE PUGH: And Gertrude is living right up the street here, right up the hall.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, right up the hall. Right up the street.

ROSE PUGH: She sits at one of the tables next to me in the dining room.

CAROL EMSLEY: She’s lovely.

ROSE PUGH: She is, she’s wonderful.

CAROL EMSLEY: She’s a lovely lady.

ROSE PUGH: And her daughter comes often.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, with the dog.

ROSE PUGH: Marilyn with the dog.

CAROL EMSLEY: With dog, Florence.

ROSE PUGH: She has that dog trained so well. She does. I was watching a show about pets and how they’re trained. And this little dog, this Edith–

CAROL EMSLEY: Edith Cavell.

ROSE PUGH: Cavell.

CAROL EMSLEY: Edith Cavell.

ROSE PUGH: I so well trained that you’d think she was a– a lot, uh, under training a lot longer than she has been.

CAROL EMSLEY: She’s not very old, is she?

ROSE PUGH: No.

CAROL EMSLEY: No, I know that. She’s a puppy, really.

ROSE PUGH: She is, and adorable. She was here with her the other day.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah she comes every Wednesday, doesn’t she.

ROSE PUGH: I don’t know if she has a certain day to come.

CAROL EMSLEY: Well, when I was visiting Charlotte, she used to come on a Wednesday. So. She’s a nice person.

ROSE PUGH: Oh, she’s wonderful.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah, she is. Yeah, Marilyn.

ROSE PUGH: And I can see her mother and her are a lot alike in many ways. We used to sit with Gertrude and Bob a lot. Dawn Bissell and I used to sit with them at, uh, the church dinners and things.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. We got to be in the habit of doing it. We’d see each other. Oh yeah, we’re going to sit together. Yes, that’s it’s not like home used to be. The church isn’t like, as homelike to me as it used to be, because a lot of the people that are there now are newer members that I don’t even know.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right, things change. You know, that’s– that’s the way the world is.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah. So but I still feel much a part of it, even though I don’t get to church at all. I feel very much–

CAROL EMSLEY: Do you go to church here?

ROSE PUGH: Hmm?

CAROL EMSLEY: Do you go to services here?

ROSE PUGH: Oh yes.

CAROL EMSLEY: Sundays.

ROSE PUGH: I go every Sunday I can. I haven’t been going lately because of my injury.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right. My injury.

ROSE PUGH: But I do go every Sunday. And I don’t go to church, but I listen to it and watch it on television.

CAROL EMSLEY: Can you see television?

ROSE PUGH: Oh yeah.

CAROL EMSLEY: Oh, you can? Oh that’s good.

ROSE PUGH: Not real good, but I can see it well enough.

CAROL EMSLEY: Right.

ROSE PUGH: And I can hear it.

CAROL EMSLEY: Yeah.

ROSE PUGH: I really love Chaplin Jimmy. He’s a sweetheart.

CAROL EMSLEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he’s a very nice man, and so is the other chaplain. Now, the new man that took part of Charlotte’s service. I can’t think what his name is.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah, Dahl Drumming, Dahl Drumming.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK, yeah. Yeah, they both seem very nice men.

ROSE PUGH: I hear he’s going to be leaving the state? Somebody told he was going to move to Arizona. He has a daughter who lives there.

CAROL EMSLEY: OK.

ROSE PUGH: And, what?

CAROL EMSLEY: I said, that’s what we all do, isn’t it, as we get older. We move nearer our kids.

ROSE PUGH: Well, he’s lived here in Carroll County all his life.

CAROL EMSLEY: Uh-huh.

ROSE PUGH: And he’s been active in the community and around, and he’s now an ordained minister. So he’s a nice guy too. We’ll miss him. Arizona will benefit while we lose him.

CAROL EMSLEY: That’s right. Well, this has been interesting. I hope it worked, it’s on the camera.

ROSE PUGH: Well, if it didn’t, it didn’t. We had fun anyway.

CAROL EMSLEY: And if it didn’t, we’ll do it again.

ROSE PUGH: Yeah.

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